Chatting in #terrafusion
Shambler   = Me
SleepwalkR = DM map maker
[OUT]Than  = DM map maker
Seth       = DM map maker
[R2]Optic  = Speedrunner
Gonzo      = DM map maker

...
<SleepwalkR> everyone is waiting for q3test
<Shambler> not me
<SleepwalkR> well, I think the release of q3test was another april 
  teaser
<Shambler> (i.e. i am not waiting for q3a_it's_a_sodding_deathmatch
  _addon_NOT_a_real_game test)
<Shambler> than: correct
<SleepwalkR> sham: yes, I know.
<SleepwalkR> sham: I know that you are too intolerant to call a 
  multi-player-only game a game at all. =)
<Shambler> it's only half a game at best
<Shambler> and that is being generous
<SleepwalkR> sham: well, it's a multiplayer game. I still wonder 
  what's wrong about that?
<[OUT]Than> bullshit
<Shambler> what's wrong???
<[OUT]Than> what about bomber man
<Shambler> what about it???
<SleepwalkR> yes
<[OUT]Than> that was crap in sp but rocked in mp that ain't half a 
  game
<SleepwalkR> yes?
<[OUT]Than> er...
<Seth> sham: its at least half a game....
<Shambler> at most 1/3 of a game
<[OUT]Than> I don't really have a point. I was trying to be 
  controversial
<[OUT]Than> bugger
<SleepwalkR> it's a fuckin full complete multiplayer game, dammit
<Seth> 4 this reason....
<[OUT]Than> I hate when I do that
<Shambler> multiplayer game, i.e. really not very significant
<[OUT]Than> pptthh
<Shambler> multiplayer + single player game = very significant
<SleepwalkR> significat to you that is
<Seth> think of all racin games/beat em ups etc.. like um... 
  tekken.street fighter... viper/rollcage....
<Shambler> no, in general gaming terms
<SleepwalkR> significant to a buttload of online gamers
<Shambler> okay
<Shambler> fps games
<[OUT]Than> I think most of us have spent more time playing 
  multiplayer quake and quake 2 than sp
<Seth> single player = league thing verses comp.... 
<[OUT]Than> except you maybe shamb
<Shambler> so???
<SleepwalkR> than: yep, except for sham that is =)
<[OUT]Than> so there :P
<SleepwalkR> heh
<Seth> ppl dont go round sayin theyre just half a game???
<Shambler> okay
<Shambler> very simple
<Shambler> half an FPS game
<Shambler> happy???
<Seth> no.....
<Seth> :)
<[OUT]Than> quake was boring as hell in sp. It had a good 
  atmosphere but that was it
<SleepwalkR> FPS = first person shooter
<Shambler> out than
<Shambler> bollocks to you
<[OUT]Than> the first and third episodes were quite good
<SleepwalkR> and for me, a multiplayer only game is a fps game at 
  it's best
<Seth> cos it doesnt have 2 b diff in fps....
*** [R2]Optic (~Dunno@1Cust36.tnt40.chi5.da.uu.net) has joined 
#terrafusion
<Shambler> yadda yadda
<Shambler> oh god
<[OUT]Than> anyway, you aall heard why id are making q3a 
  multiplayer only
<Shambler> as if life wasn't bad enough
<[R2]Optic> hey dickwad
<SleepwalkR> hehe
<Shambler> because they are utter twats
<Seth> q3a will rock bcos of the new 'single player'...... imo :)
<Seth> hehe
<Shambler> botmatch DOES NOT EQUAL SINGLE PLAYER
<SleepwalkR> sham: no, because they know how to make money and 
  please a lot of ppl
<[OUT]Than> they were going on about resources and how they waste 
  time doing sp which you complete once then don't play again
<Shambler> bullshit it;s money
<Shambler> that's just fucking bullshit
<SleepwalkR> than: exactly
<[OUT]Than> botmatch IS NOT MEANT TO EQUAL SINGLE PLAYER
<Shambler> because they make most money from selling it to people 
  who don't play dm
<Shambler> (ATM, may change in future)
<[OUT]Than> IT IS MEANT TO GET NEWBIES UP TO SPEED
<[OUT]Than> IN MULTIPLAYER
<Shambler> yes
<SleepwalkR> sham: you know, there will be plenty of companies 
  that will make singleplayer conversions with the q3 engine, so 
  why bother?
<Gonzo> yeah and that is GOOD
<[OUT]Than> sorry about my sudden caps outburst
<Shambler> but seth was saying it is the new single player which 
  is just plain bullshit because it has been with us since 
  reaperbots
<[OUT]Than> anyway, someone else will doubtless make a q3a engined 
  sp game so sop whining
<[OUT]Than> stop even
<Seth> and proberly do it better than id did..... like if valve 
  used  it..... thatd b kewl :)
<Shambler> than: yes but it will suck compared to what id 
  could/should have done
<[OUT]Than> yeah, exactly
<Shambler> bullshit
<SleepwalkR> sham: no
<[OUT]Than> no
<Seth> sham: yes... since reaperbots.... but now it will b done BY 
  id... as part of the game.... it will b so much better than ne 
  other bot u have ever played against....
<Shambler> id games have specific and perculiar style that i love, 
  and that other companies cannot match
<Shambler> seth, it will still be botmatch
<Shambler> and thus, it will suck
<[OUT]Than> shamb, don't you think id are taking a BIG risk with a 
  mp only game - how is that going to be sure to make them more 
  money than a sp/mp game?
<Shambler> botmatch = suck
<[OUT]Than> :P
<SleepwalkR> I think that they couldn't have made a very good 
  single player game. They have decided not to split their 
  ressources and to program the ultimate engine this time
<[OUT]Than> for GODS SAKE!
<Shambler> than: exactly my point, it's NOT for money
<[OUT]Than> we are all online and therefore can play REAL PEOPLE!
<SleepwalkR> if they would've made sp, the engine wouldn't be that 
  good
<Seth> sham: heh.... well.... imo i think it will b kewl... but 
  then i like botmatch so.... :)
<Shambler> it's because they are stupid
<[OUT]Than> grrr! I am getting riled here
<[OUT]Than> I better go before I explode with frustration and 
  annoyance :)
<[OUT]Than> bye
<Shambler> hopefully, q3a will crash totally
<[OUT]Than> why?
<Shambler> and then, id will go back to making great SP + DM games
<[OUT]Than> you just want more and more sp?
<Shambler> and everyone will be happy
<SleepwalkR> sham: that's stupid
<Shambler> like for quake1, like for quake2
<Shambler> like for doom for all i know
<[OUT]Than> ppl will always make sp games - at least for the next 
  few years
<Seth> ne1 know if there r ne plans 4 wot comes after q3a???
<[OUT]Than> doom 2 rocked
<Shambler> they did it in the past, they could do it again
<Shambler> yes, but i like id's style
<[OUT]Than> never played it in mp tho :(
<SleepwalkR> sham: there cannot be another dm and sp compromise 
<Shambler> apaarently it was cool in dm too
<Shambler> okay sleepy
<[OUT]Than> q4 is planned apparently
<SleepwalkR> take the network code of q2 for example
<Shambler> Quake = compromise???
<Shambler> quake2 = compromise???
<[OUT]Than> I heard that was using another new engine originally 
  called trinity
<SleepwalkR> yes
<SleepwalkR> yes
<SleepwalkR> sure
<Shambler> get fuxking real, they are the best dm games ever made
<[OUT]Than> quake = sp compromise
<SleepwalkR> compromise between sp and mp aspects, technically 
  that is
<Shambler> that's what people love, that's what people play
<[OUT]Than> q2 = no compromises except for all you hardened q1 dm 
  nuts
<SleepwalkR> well, they could've been mucho better dm games if 
  they had been dm only
<Shambler> id can and have made great SP + DM games
<Shambler> could they really???
<Shambler> i doubt it
<Shambler> how could they be better???
<SleepwalkR> yes
<SleepwalkR> take the ping, they could be a lot lower in q2
<SleepwalkR> and lag could be reduced too
<Shambler> people love them for their simplicity
<SleepwalkR> and traffic
<Shambler> okay
<SleepwalkR> traffic is the big thing
<Shambler> i can get a 150 ping on quite a few servers, that is 
  fine
<SleepwalkR> traffic will prolly be equal or lower in q3
<[OUT]Than> why do so manny ppl love halflife then - that's not 
  exactly somple
<[OUT]Than> simple
<Shambler> even at 300 it's perfectly playable
<Shambler> than: for variety
<SleepwalkR> sham: but if the networking code would have been 
  optimized for mp only, your ping would be much better
<Shambler> for a different style of dm
<[OUT]Than> damn, you always have a counter
<Shambler> so
<Shambler> i can live with 150 ping
<[OUT]Than> I can live with a 150 ping but not a 300 ping and lag
<SleepwalkR> dammit, sham you don't get my point
<Shambler> i get your point
<SleepwalkR> I think ping 150 is ok, too
<Shambler> but it still doesn't mean id have done the right thing
<SleepwalkR> well, to you maybe
<SleepwalkR> I think there are much more ppl (at least on the net) 
  who think that id have done the right thing, eh?
<Shambler> yes
<Seth> heh... this debate will never end.....
<[OUT]Than> q2 dm runs much better than q1 but I heard network 
  code in q1 was worse. what kind of shit is that?
<Shambler> but the people who really apprieciate sp don't have a 
  voice on the net
<Seth> in a yrs time ppl will b sayin...'were id right to make q3a 
  dm only... well......' :)
<Shambler> because they don't live in #terrafusion arguing with me
<Shambler> i wont
<Shambler> net = small
<[R2]Optic> imo qw netcode is alot better than q2's, but i dont 
  talk in here, shambler gets mad.... =/
<Shambler> other ppl = large
<Shambler> you can talk optic
<SleepwalkR> optic: netcode in q2 is almost the same as in qw
<Gonzo> optic is right =)
<SleepwalkR> hehe
<[R2]Optic> not really
<SleepwalkR> well well
<Seth> sham: heh.... but do u disagree that most ppl only play 
  q1/2 for dm now....??
<Gonzo> *almost* the same that is
<SleepwalkR> I have read that in an interview with dave kirsch
<Shambler> NOW they do yes
<SleepwalkR> so I think this is correct =)
<Shambler> but the people who are still playing it are those dmers 
  on line
<Shambler> and a few more balanced ppl playing custom maps
<Shambler> but there are a helluva lot of ppl not online who just 
  played the sp
<SleepwalkR> well, we don't know about the other, non-online guys.
<Gonzo> hehe i don't mind them
<SleepwalkR> But most of the gamers I know prefer mp over sp.
<Shambler> except that from everything i hear, there are a lot 
  more of them
<Shambler> yes
<Gonzo> you don't have to be online to play quake in multiplay
<Seth> so then u can understand ids reasons 4 doin wot theyre 
  doin.....
<Shambler> because most gamers you know are on the net playing dm 
<Shambler> no
<SleepwalkR> sham: wrong
<[OUT]Than> I reckon if we were all in the same room we would be 
  hitting each other by now
<Seth> hehe
<Shambler> they are abandoning a large part of their audience, and 
  listening to those who shout the loudest
<SleepwalkR> well, I wouldn't be hitting anyone, why should I?
<Shambler> rather than doing what they can and should do, i.e. 
  pleasing all people
<Gonzo> shamb? that is good isn't it?
<Seth> well then more ppl like u should do something about it.. 
  like u r doin...
<Shambler> gonzo: no
<SleepwalkR> sham: I think they're listening to those who pay best
<Shambler> pay???
<[OUT]Than> butr sahmb, you shout the loudest :)
<Seth> u can never please all ppl....
<Gonzo> nah pleasing all pll sucks
<Gonzo> if they tried to do that no one would be COMPLETELY pleased
<Seth> q2 didnt please all q1 dm ppl did it???
<[R2]Optic> hell no
<[OUT]Than> no but q1 ppl were wrong :)
<Gonzo> than? hehe just wanted to say that
<Shambler> seth: but you can deliberately go out of your way to 
  only please a minority
<Shambler> like id are doing
<SleepwalkR> sham: they listen to the other companies who want to 
  bay the engine to make their own games on it
<Gonzo> than =) nah
<Gonzo> you never really tried it
<SleepwalkR> you know, id have decided to be more an engine 
  producer than a gaming company
<[OUT]Than> ok, so I haven't. I admit it I have NEVER played quake 
  1
<Shambler> sleepy: as i said before, i love id's styles and i 
  don't think other companies can do it as good
<[OUT]Than> :)
<[OUT]Than> that was a lie
<Shambler> sleepy yes
<Shambler> exactly
<Seth> sham: i dont think it is a minority.... the online 
  population is wquite large now... millions of ppl go online in 
  britain evry day now... thats not much of a minority
<Shambler> which disappoints me because i love their games
<Shambler> yes
<Shambler> but not millions play q1/q2 online
<[OUT]Than> go play half-life and stop complaining :)
<Shambler> me???
<Shambler> played hl, it was cool
<Shambler> thank you
<SleepwalkR> sham: well, that's YOUR problem. I think you cannot 
  abandon id for that and say that their decision was wrong coz 
  you don't like it
<Seth> no..... but not millions ever played q1/2 sp offline.... 
<Gonzo> ehhh sure
<Gonzo> millions play q1 q2 online
<Gonzo> at least q2
<SleepwalkR> it was the best decision they could make for the sake 
  of their company
<Gonzo> hehe
<Seth> i agree..
<Shambler> gonzo, that is complete and utter bullshit
<Seth> they r doin wot they do best...
<Shambler> for the sake of their company yes
<Seth> makin a kewl dm fps engine...
<Gonzo> haha i knew you'd say something like that =]
<Shambler> for the sake of their whole audience, no
<Gonzo> 1st of april right?
<Shambler> it is gonz, look at the DL figures for QII 3.20
<Shambler> it's like 60,000 or summat
<SleepwalkR> sham: well, what shall they do? please ppl and let 
  other companies lead the pack, or produce killer engines and 
  blast away the concurrence?
<SleepwalkR> I think I would do the same
<Seth> well... i didnt dl it... but i have it...
<Shambler> no
<Seth> cos i got it off a cd ... 
<Seth> and i think the same will werk for q3a...
<Shambler> sleepy: they should lead the SP and DM pack, like they 
  did with Doom, like they did with Quake, like they did with 
  Quake2
<Seth> ppl will get the game... play it 'sp' against bots.. then 
  want to go online if they can....
<SleepwalkR> the guys at id just don't have the manpower to 
  produce a killer engine that is lightyears better than anything 
  else AND a sp game that rules, too
<[OUT]Than> talk about something non-controversial so I can escape 
  this conbversation. I need to go.
<Shambler> uhuh sleepy
<Shambler> well, they fucking well did for the 3 games i just 
  mentioned
<SleepwalkR> sham: there was not that many other companies then
<Gonzo> nah
<Gonzo> general q1 sp game didn't rule, neither did q2
<Shambler> yes it did
<[OUT]Than> please, talk about something mundane. I have been 
  online too long and I cannot escap as long as this debate rages 
  on
<Gonzo> it's custom sp maps that rule
<SleepwalkR> now, there are a few games that might someday reach 
  the technological standard of the id games
<Shambler> at the time, it owned anything else
<Seth> it did at the time...
<Gonzo> than? cool
<Gonzo> then you'll have to stay
<Shambler> and, for some people, it is still valid
<[OUT]Than> doh!
<Shambler> like me
<Shambler> i played HL
<Gonzo> shamb? yeah at the time
<Shambler> i still like q1 sp
<Gonzo> but there was nothing new since doom
<Shambler> go read my rant
<Gonzo> just all the same... with more 3d
<Gonzo> q1 sp is cool, sure... but the normal id maps, at least 
  most of them, plain suck
<Shambler> and different architecture, and a cool atmosphere, and 
  cool monsters
<SleepwalkR> sham: yeah, but if they would split their powers to 
  make both sp and mp, the engine would maybe not develop as much. 
  Then there would be the possibitly for others to come up with 
  something better maybe
<Seth> all q1 is still pretty kewl....
<[OUT]Than> GnnnHHHH, MUST... reach close button... HHNNGGH (no 
  I'm not forcing out a log :) Almost there...
<[OUT]Than> bye
*** [OUT]Than has quit IRC (Leaving)
<Seth> but now theres better competition....
<Shambler> huh
<Shambler> yes true
<Shambler> but barely any competition in dm
<Seth> yep....
<SleepwalkR> it's all for economical reasons I think
<Shambler> yes ppl play HL dm to be sure, but q2 and q1 still 0wn
<SleepwalkR> yeah, not _yet_
<Seth> cos thats where id r better than ne1 else...
<Shambler> maybe
<Seth> which is y q3a is dm only.....
<Shambler> but, id did say they were not going to make big profits 
  on q3a
<SleepwalkR> look at unreal tournament. It will suck, but there 
  will be other games like this
<Seth> did they...... 
<Seth> goin back to q4.......
<SleepwalkR> well, not yet, thats it
<Shambler> but at the time, doom sp shit on everything else, at 
  the time quake sp shit on all else, at the time q2 sp shit on 
  all else
<Seth> some1 said they heard somethin about it.....
<Seth> will that have sp???
<Shambler> there was all this trinity stuff i heard
<Shambler> i damn well hope so
<SleepwalkR> I mean, they are makin a step into the future of 
  gaming. I think they will lead the mp gaming pack and letting 
  the sp field to other companies using their engines
<Seth> isnt that wot bcame q3a???
<SleepwalkR> this way they get money for sp and mp games =)
<SleepwalkR> that's their trick
<Shambler> if id took the q3a engine and especially styles and 
  themes, and made a proper sp game, i would be happy
<SleepwalkR> hehe
<[R2]Optic> u guys debate for hours on end?
<Shambler> like, after q3a i mean
<SleepwalkR> they just don't have the time to make sp.
<Shambler> ummmmmmmmmm, yeah optic =)
<Shambler> maybe
<Shambler> maybe sleepy, maybe
<SleepwalkR> well, sham, maybe they will produce a sp episode
<SleepwalkR> who knows?
<Shambler> but they should damn well make the time!!
<Shambler> yes
<SleepwalkR> like, q3:episode hehe
<Shambler> the thing is
<Shambler> i look at the pics of q3a, and it looks great
<Shambler> it's got the same styles that i love in q1
<Shambler> and i just think it's such a waste that you won't be 
  able to appreciate that in an immersive SP setting
<SleepwalkR> hehe
<SleepwalkR> well, I think you are right on that
<SleepwalkR> sp and mp would be nice, but it's just not possible
<Shambler> hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm
<Shambler> i think it is possible
<SleepwalkR> to make the absolute best in both aspects
<Shambler> yes they need more time
<SleepwalkR> well, if it were possible, they'd have done it
<Shambler> but, they should take more time, and please ALL ppl
<Seth> sham: but they cant.... we saw that wiv q2...
<SleepwalkR> sham: I think they cannot take moretime
<[R2]Optic> maybe they want q3 to be a spectator game like q1?
<Shambler> okay so you get a few whining QWers
<Gonzo> sleepie? not yet
<Shambler> but they  can just fuck off back to QW
<SleepwalkR> gonzo: do it =)
<Shambler> if they can;t adapt to a new game, tough shit
<Shambler> a LOT of ppl can and did
<Gonzo> hehe if i don't like q3a i WILL go back to qw
<Gonzo> and i'm sure i'll have enough ppl around to have a lan 
  twice a week playing qw
<SleepwalkR> well
<Gonzo> whot ;)
<SleepwalkR> I think we should just wait for the final game
<Shambler> yes obviously
<SleepwalkR> and give our stoopid comments then =)
<Shambler> but i still want to grumble and whine if that is okay :P
<SleepwalkR> sham: nice discussion tho
<SleepwalkR> hehe
<SleepwalkR> sure
<Shambler> hmph
...