Chatting in #terrafusion.
Shambler     = Me
guf          = SP map maker and theorist
NotoriousRay = Map maker
Evil_Lair    = DM map maker

...
<Shambler> guf: a proposition
<guf> what?
<Shambler> would you like to help me make Q3A into a single player 
  game???
<guf> hmm, what kind of single player game?
<Shambler> i.e., taking the id maps and player skins, and making a 
  normal FPS single player game from them???
<Shambler> just a normal game, like quake, quake2
<guf> do you have modellers?
<Shambler> nope
<Shambler> i'm working on the idea of doing stuff with the player 
  models
<guf> do you have anybody? ;)
<Shambler> nope
<Shambler> it's an idea guf
<Shambler> here's how
<guf> k
<guf> tell me
<Shambler> whenever i winge about q3a, ppl say "well, someone will 
  make a sp mod"
<guf> ya
<Shambler> and i think "but it will suck because it will have crap 
  monsters and designs etc etc"
<guf> it wouldn't be that hard, strictly speaking
<guf> ya, the monsters will be players with player weapons...
<guf> that act like q2 monsters
<Shambler> but, yesterday, spog pointed out that you could use the 
  bots, recode them a bit, and convert it into SP
<guf> ya
<Shambler> using the player models
<guf> exactly
<guf> that's what I'm saying
<Shambler> see, they have some funky models
<guf> monsters are easier than bots
<Shambler> so far, we've seen a human male, human female, doom 
  human, weird spindly alien, and big robotic alien
<guf> and they have a wide range of model types
<guf> dude, there's gonna be tons of models
<Shambler> now, if there is more, there could be potential for 
  proper monsters
<Shambler> exactly
<Shambler> so, the new idea is to use them, not 3rd party add on 
  lameness
<Shambler> and, you'll have bot ai
<Shambler> so, modify that, and you could have fun ai too
<guf> ya
<Shambler> remove respawning, and convert the maps to SP
<guf> ya
<Shambler> like, do some basic map conversion, or add small maps 
  together
<Shambler> so, it has all the style of q3a, but with normal sp 
  gameplay
<guf> well, it wouldn't exactly be normal, heh
<guf> no big bosses
<Shambler> okay
<Shambler> well, i could live with that
<Shambler> quake is cool without chthon
<guf> though, the way the modeling system works, we could do a big 
  boss from parts
<guf> of other models
<Shambler> quake2 is cool without makron
<guf> check this out
<Shambler> we???
<Shambler> you mean you are in???
<Shambler> =)
<guf> ya, the taging system is apparently really easy
<guf> tagging even
<guf> just a sec
<guf> http://www.planetquake.com/q2pmp/gfx/visor-preview/visorprevi
  ew-frames.htm
<guf> check out how they moved chunks around
<guf> we could just mix and match chunks of all the models
<Shambler> you mean the centaur thing???
<guf> for new monsters
<Shambler> yeah no shit
<Shambler> it would be like biomechanoids
<Shambler> man that's even better
<guf> not just the centaur... heh
<guf> there's a lot of possibilities there
<guf> but I'm neither an ai coder, nor a modeller...
<Shambler> that's just an example!!!
<Shambler> no
<guf> we need more peeps, heh
<Shambler> but you are clever, dedicated and a mapper
<guf> I would ask stecki, but I don't think he would be interested
<guf> =(
<guf> he's a phenomenal modeler
<Shambler> you are someone i'd really trust to work on this
<guf> thx
<guf> that's important too
<guf> people you can trust to see it through...
<guf> but I haven't officially agreed to it ;)
<guf> I'd like to do that though...
<Shambler> guf: the thing is, ppl talk about all this crap, and i 
  think "wouldn't that be nice", but now i am thinking "wouldn't 
  it be fucking nicer if i organised ppl to do it and actually got 
  it done!"
<guf> we have a lot of time before release to find people too
<Shambler> yes
<Shambler> i mean, like, with ideas like this, someone has to 
  actually do them - and why not me organising it???
<Shambler> it's time to be bold i think
<guf> hehe, but what kind of skills do you bring to the team? 
  playtesting? vision?
<guf> er, "vision"
<NotoriousRay> sham do you know how many mod and addon teams don't 
  finish what they set out to do
<Shambler> vision, playtesting, quality checking, ideas, 
  organisation, web sites, map suggestions, stories
<guf> ya, it needs to be something reasonable
<guf> and we would have to follow guidelines...
<Shambler> i know ray, i know
<Shambler> but why not damn well try eh???
<Shambler> guidelines???
<Shambler> how so???
<NotoriousRay> well to me, i don't wanna put my effort into 
  something if i think its not gonna even happen in the end
<Shambler> well, ray, that's up to the ppl who do things - it's up 
  to them to actually get things done
<guf> heh, shamb, sounds like the others would be doing all the 
  work ;)
<Shambler> guf: what sort of guidelines
<NotoriousRay> yeah, but real life and the fact that its usually 
  volunteer work, always gets in the way i've found
<guf> well, specifics goals and milestones
<Shambler> well, i would be in charge of that, in addition to all 
  the other stuff i'd take responsibility for
<guf> hmmm
<Evil_Lair> I think, if a project is well tought out and well 
  organized chances are ppl will be more incline to stick with it 
  and see it trough.
<guf> well, to tell you the truth, I'm already working on 
  something for q3
<guf> but it's still in its infancy
<Shambler> well, i'd certainly make it well thought out???
<Shambler> what guf??
...

At this point, the chat log "q3aspguf" should be refered to, as I discussed guf's mod idea
and whether it would conflict.

...
<Evil_Lair> yeah, you would:)
<NotoriousRay> yeah but organization and thinking out a project 
  can only take you so far
<Shambler> i know ray
<Shambler> thanks for repeatedly pointing out where it can all go 
  wrong
<guf> heehee
<Shambler> but you don't mind if i try, do you???
<Shambler> hi than
<NotoriousRay> just speaking from experience, sham
<Shambler> i can guess
<Shambler> i'm not a fool
<Shambler> i see a lot of things fall be the wayside
<NotoriousRay> ...
<Evil_Lair> shambler: I'd be more than happy to do any graphics 
  for your project(since that's what i do) :)
<Evil_Lair> (if you want)
<Evil_Lair> (if you don't want too, that's ok too)
<Shambler> evil: the project is this - convert Q3A into a single 
  player game using Id's maps and player skins - player skins as 
  monsters
<Evil_Lair> :)
<Evil_Lair> yeah, i know:)
<Shambler> well, evil, it is no small project
<Evil_Lair> well, i'm no small artist:P
<Evil_Lair> heheh
<Shambler> and there is one goal: finish and release a high 
  quality product
<Evil_Lair> of course
<guf> heh
<NotoriousRay> so basically..you want to make the bots 
  non-respawning
<guf> and stupider
<guf> ;)
<Shambler> yes and stupider
<NotoriousRay> yeah, for that real quake-ish monster feel, they'd 
  have to be dummied down
<Shambler> but, use the AI to make them fun - give them character
<NotoriousRay> who needs ai anyways?
<Shambler> well, also, since you're not supposed to die, it can't 
  be too hard
<Evil_Lair> :P
<NotoriousRay> well it doesn't sound like it'd be hard to code to 
  change player/bot respawning and dumb down the ai
<Shambler> well, i don't know, but hopefully not
<NotoriousRay> unfortunately i cant code an real stuff worth shit
<NotoriousRay> any rather
<Evil_Lair> sham: have you come up with a story line yet?
<Shambler> nope
<Shambler> this is a basic idea sp0g started yesterday
<Evil_Lair> ahh
<Evil_Lair> ok:)
<Evil_Lair> be better to see the game and figure out what would be 
  better to do anyways
<Shambler> but, i would aim for a quake style, but with a better 
  story
<Evil_Lair> cool
<Shambler> so, not as indepth as hl or unreal
<Shambler> this is a simple gothic hellish quake style action fps 
  idea
<Evil_Lair> you said my favorite words...gothic and hellish:)
<Evil_Lair> heh
<Shambler> well, q3a is that
<Evil_Lair> ya
<Shambler> and i want that in an SP game
<Evil_Lair> you'd be able to do some really cool things with the 
  q3 engine
<Evil_Lair> (from what I've seen and heard of what it can do)
<Shambler> well, the idea would be not to stray from what id are 
  doing - use their monsters, convert their maps, keep their style
<Shambler> keep it as simple a coversion as possible
<Evil_Lair> yeah, that'd be a good idea
<Evil_Lair> don't know how well there maps would convert to sp 
  tough
<Shambler> i can gues
<Evil_Lair> I haven't played it, so i don't know
<Shambler> i've been talking with guf - he has doubts too
<Shambler> i'll copy what i said
<Evil_Lair> k
<Shambler> <Shambler> i believe there is potential for conversion
<Shambler> <Shambler> particularly if you can add levels together
<Shambler> <Shambler> this is something i have been thinking about 
  (for Quake) for a very long time now
<Shambler> <Shambler> also, the a good idea would be to focus on a 
  mission pack size - 15 levels maybe
<Shambler> <Shambler> which would give a lot of id levels to chose 
  from and chop up
<Shambler> <Shambler> another point guf, is that some of unreals 
  levels are rather DM like and non-linear, and they still work
<Evil_Lair> cool:)
<Evil_Lair> It might turn out better than you think too, q3 levels 
  seem well designed
<Shambler> yes
<Shambler> the idea again, is to keep it simple
<Evil_Lair> yeah
<Shambler> rather than needing 15 new maps, just use the id ones 
  and chop them up
<Evil_Lair> yeah, that'd be cool
<Shambler> obviously that would need mappers
<Evil_Lair> heh ya
<Shambler> but, they wouldn't have to learn how to create full 
  maps from scratch
<Evil_Lair> just modify the ID ones
<Shambler> yes
<Evil_Lair> but how?...the convertion of bsp to map is not too 
  efficiant
<Shambler> obviously quite a bit of modification would be needed - 
  adding maps together, blocking off sections, adding doors and 
  switchs, linking themes etc etc
<Shambler> but the raw material would be there to work with
<Shambler> how??
<Shambler> errr, i dunno
<Shambler> that's for the mappers i guess...
<Evil_Lair> ya
<Evil_Lair> :)
<Evil_Lair> bsp to map, almost doubles the brushes in the map file 
  tho
<guf> ya, it's messy
<guf> from what I hear
<Evil_Lair> it creates a brush for every face in a bsp file
<Shambler> okay
<Shambler> well, that would be a problem to overcome
<guf> maybe id will hook you up with source material
<guf> they've done it before
<Shambler> hehe maybe
<Evil_Lair> ya, i hope they do
<Shambler> i'm not thinking about them yet
<Shambler> :)
<guf> heh
<guf> well, the game won't be out til like Nov. anyway
<Evil_Lair> ya, lots of time to figure out the details and such
<Shambler> also have to make that fucking hud and ammo boxes a lot 
  smaller too
<Evil_Lair> i find it kinda ironic that when ID releases a sp 
  game, we all try to make it a dm game, but when they make a dm 
  game we try to turn it into a sp game
<Evil_Lair> :P
<Shambler> ROFL
<Shambler> what did ppl turn into a dm game though???
<guf> "grass is always greener"
<Evil_Lair> we are never happy, are we
<Evil_Lair> heh
<Shambler> well not for me
<Evil_Lair> sham: q1/q2 has a huge dm following
<Shambler> i couldn't really care less about dm
<Evil_Lair> heh, that's ok though
<Shambler> yeah but evil, they are SP AND DM games!!!
<Shambler> they are both
<Evil_Lair> ya i know, just a stupid comment
<Shambler> a compromise in some ppl's views, but a compromise that 
  worked fucking well!!
<Evil_Lair> I made
<Evil_Lair> :)
<Shambler> okay =)
<Evil_Lair> i know what your saying tho
<Evil_Lair> :)
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